[7:53] Johan Berntsson: hi [7:53] Tom Murphy: morning Johan [7:53] Johan Berntsson: nice avatar [7:54] Tom Murphy: thanks, i want to use it for teaching [7:54] Tom Murphy: I need to improve my face [7:54] Tom Murphy: I did it myself and I am no expert with graphics tools [7:55] Johan Berntsson: pretty good already. I almost recognize you [7:55] Tom Murphy: cool, that is most important [7:56] Tom Murphy: A guy at Stanford did one for me, but I haven't been able to convert from it yet [7:56] Tom Murphy: Hey Fitz [7:56] Andrew FitzGibbon: Hey Tom [7:56] Johan Berntsson: morning [7:56] Andrew FitzGibbon: Good Morning! [8:00] Paul Steinberg: Good Morning [8:00] Johan Berntsson: hi [8:05] Mic Bowman: morning everybody [8:05] Andrew FitzGibbon: Morning. [8:06] Tom Murphy: Morning [8:10] Tom Murphy: Charlie you floor me [8:10] Charlie Peck: it's what happens when you say "sit here" [8:11] Tom Murphy: interesting [8:12] Mic Bowman: we could easily make yellowstone a place to bring "younger" kids [8:12] Mic Bowman: a museum of sorts [8:13] Paul Steinberg: Given that you want to make this kid friendly, do we want to limit blogging and twittering? [8:13] Mic Bowman: that's pretty hard to do [8:14] Paul Steinberg: So should I feel free to blogand twitter on this? [8:14] Mic Bowman: yes [8:14] Mic Bowman: its already being done [8:17] Mic Bowman: i just set the region flag to PG for this region [8:18] Charlie Peck: The mature flag on my client went away when you did (Hippo) [8:18] Mic Bowman: good [8:18] Mic Bowman: so the property is being set and stored [8:20] Charlie Peck: My experience owning an ISP leads me to agree strongly with the notion that we can't claim to search and censor, only follow-up when things are reported to us. [8:20] Tom Murphy: I like that notion as well [8:21] Tom Murphy: Another is to what enables an 11 year old to be in a college class [8:21] Tom Murphy: Paperwork the parent signs [8:22] Mic Bowman: hi robin [8:22] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: hello everyone [8:22] Mic Bowman: we're having a discussion about age limits [8:23] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: nice to meet you all [8:23] Mic Bowman: mostly on the phone bridge [8:23] Paul Steinberg is Online [8:23] Mic Bowman: sorry [8:23] Andrew FitzGibbon is Online [8:23] Mic Bowman: but i know kyle mentioned that you were going for youth as well on reactiongrid [8:23] Mic Bowman: how are you setting up terms of service? [8:23] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes - we are strickly a PG environment [8:24] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: and yes we do have that in terms of service - we also 'police' the sims to be sure that the appropriate behaviours are enforced [8:25] Mic Bowman: are you doing any age verification? [8:25] Mic Bowman: or just managing content to a specific standard? [8:26] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: our terms of service are set as PG only - currently we don't have an age verification system in place yet but are thinking of implementing that soon. we want to allow for a mix of adults and kids to intereract in a supervised environment [8:27] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we require any classes of students from a school that the teachers be in the grid with them - it is up t them to keep them corraled(hehe) [8:27] Mic Bowman: btw.. charlie... you should see yourelf from the next floor down [8:27] Mic Bowman: that seems like a good idea [8:27] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: I saw he was in the floor. very funny [8:28] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: but we do supply supervision and policing of PG standards [8:28] Charlie Peck: you have a problem with a low vertical profile? [8:28] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we have someone on the grid at all times when children are on the grid - most of the teachers notify us and schedule their class times [8:29] Mic Bowman: so there is always a monitor on the site [8:29] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes yes there is [8:29] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: getting logged in now to RG to do my shift now in fact [8:29] Mic Bowman: that sounds like a lot of work but its consistent with the kid vw's like barbie girlz [8:30] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes - we want to be sure there is a safe atmosphere for the kids to freely interact wit other GirdiZens but believe that we have to be cautious since there is alway the chance someone may slip by us that could pose a threat. [8:31] Mic Bowman: having a person monitoring is probably the most "robust" solution [8:31] Tom Murphy: Thanks robin, can I get your email address for contact later [8:31] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: so we have access to boot - ban - and talk to GiridZens that show inappropriate behaviour [8:31] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: ceratinly - robing2@reactiongrid.com and feel free to contact me anytime [8:31] Mic Bowman: hi john! [8:31] John Hengeveld: good afternoon/morning night folks [8:32] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: fantstic meeting you all today! [8:32] Mic Bowman: thanks so much for your insights [8:32] Mic Bowman: this terms of service issue can be very challenging to work through [8:32] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: it sure can be. [8:32] Mic Bowman: john: i have a log of the chat so far that i can send to you [8:32] John Hengeveld: so what did we conclude in this meeting (vs the phone edition) [8:32] John Hengeveld: skip to the end :) [8:32] John Hengeveld: whats the punchline? [8:33] Mic Bowman: reaction grid uses a ToS for PG [8:33] Mic Bowman: and then uses human monitors to enforce it and protect the kids [8:33] Mic Bowman: so if kids are in the world there is a monitor there with them [8:34] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we also have guard Ducks. that send us stats of all transactions - they were just setup by our team member Chris - they will also monitor chat [8:34] John Hengeveld: yike... [8:34] Mic Bowman: we don't currently monitor all chat... but we have an IRC bridge set up that monitors eveyrone who comes & goes [8:34] John Hengeveld: the monitor stuff scares me... [8:34] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: since IM is possible in ReactionGrid we want those kids to be as safe as possible [8:35] Mic Bowman: call it "logs" [8:35] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes more like logs. [8:35] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: and we only deploy them for classes scheduled by the teachers or special events and don't turn on the chat logging functions unless kids are on the grid [8:36] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: or requested for a meeting [8:36] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we are a very hands on grid [8:37] Mic Bowman: robin: do you have an "abuse" reporting facility? [8:37] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: ok - I was just corrected - the ducks don't track IM or chat - we have someone watching the consoles to watch for appropriate chat [8:37] Mic Bowman: ok [8:38] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: sorry I miss spoke and my partner corrected me - no logs of chat at all [8:38] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: just live monitoring [8:38] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: sorry - that was bad slip - I am the techinical server side of things here and very arely deal with the code [8:39] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: I setup hyper-v VM's and server side admin mostly. [8:39] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: I am the tech geek. [8:40] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes we do have an abuse reporting tool. we have forms and and anyone experiencing anything they wish to inform us on can directly message or even call us [8:40] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: and we act immediately [8:40] Mic Bowman: quick response is critical [8:41] Mic Bowman: have you used the concierge service that the IBM guys [8:41] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we have so far only had one incident of griefing on the grid and that wasmonths ago and was before the students ever started coming to the grid. [8:41] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: and before some bgs in Opensim code were patched [8:41] Mic Bowman: ok [8:42] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we also tracked some issues with logins early on and contribted the fix back to the core code. [8:44] Mic Bowman: in reactiongrid, you're hosting all of your regions, right? [8:45] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: currently we are but we are allowing approved sims to connect under a strick review [8:46] Mic Bowman: ok... so you're reviewing the sims first [8:46] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: my partner Kyle would like to know if I can tp him here to particiapte [8:46] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: oh yes absolutely [8:46] Mic Bowman: hi kyle [8:46] Tom Murphy: Hi Kyle [8:47] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: this is one of my partners - Kyle met the Sciencesim crew [8:47] KyleG ReactionGrid: hey Mic, Tom , all! [8:47] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: he is one of the coders. [8:47] KyleG ReactionGrid: this is a great grid/concept! [8:47] KyleG ReactionGrid: Hey Paul Kylel aka G2 Proto here from Microsoft in SL [8:48] Paul Steinberg: Yo Kyle!!! [8:48] Paul Steinberg: Good to see you [8:48] Paul Steinberg: Been missing your and Zain's energy [8:48] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: lol [8:48] KyleG ReactionGrid: since RObin usually handles our HyperV server I wanted to just say our main way of keeping our TOS is heavily policing the grid especially during class events [8:48] KyleG ReactionGrid: haha [8:49] KyleG ReactionGrid: We have clas leaders and or teachers too who muct be present for classes [8:49] KyleG ReactionGrid: and were working on a messaging system so if a griefer is detected the class leader/teacher logs all users out immediately while we deal with the situation [8:50] Mic Bowman: kyle: much of our conversation is on the phone bridge [8:50] Mic Bowman: johan is going to get us voice soon [8:50] KyleG ReactionGrid: though admittedly were working through the planning on this, and talking with teachers to learn their ideas [8:50] RobinG2 ReactionGrid is Online [8:50] Mic Bowman: (i REALLY hope) [8:50] Paul Steinberg: Is griefing a big problem on Reaction Grid? [8:50] KyleG ReactionGrid: ok np just wanted to clarify that [8:50] KyleG ReactionGrid: not at all so far [8:50] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we too are working on voice integration - using both SKype and Asterisk on Windows [8:50] KyleG ReactionGrid: with HyperGrid we dont plan on each node of our grid ebing very large [8:51] KyleG ReactionGrid: this way we have smaller safe zones to police [8:51] Mic Bowman: that makes [8:51] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: no griefing is not a problem on RG - we have only had one at that was before we opened to the public and the kids. [8:51] KyleG ReactionGrid: also with HyperGrid a new dezign may be that we disconnect a grid from reaction grid core [8:51] KyleG ReactionGrid: and use the local registration database only keeping all out for time [8:51] Paul Steinberg: How much of your time is spent policing? [8:51] KyleG ReactionGrid: well since im in the grid all day long anyway [8:52] KyleG ReactionGrid: its a mix [8:52] KyleG ReactionGrid: i know the students leaders [8:52] KyleG ReactionGrid: so they check in with me and then i stay on a nearby sim with an avatar to monitor [8:52] KyleG ReactionGrid: whhile coding with another hehe [8:52] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we have team members across the pond and they take their shifts policing to so we cover the entire day and night [8:52] KyleG ReactionGrid: i have alot of monitors! [8:53] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: me too - 4 on one machine... [8:53] Mic Bowman: its nice to have that international population [8:53] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes it is to cover time zones [8:53] KyleG ReactionGrid: yes thats whats exciting us the most [8:53] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we can then use those time zones to load balance as well [8:53] KyleG ReactionGrid: we can cover many time zones with our team and we have local people aroudn the world to help teachers etc [8:54] KyleG ReactionGrid: exactly robin is doing some smart HyperV/timezone tweaks [8:54] KyleG ReactionGrid: we have a team mate in CHine, Germany, UK, Netherlands and of course USA [8:54] KyleG ReactionGrid: China [8:54] Mic Bowman: how big is reactiongrid? [8:54] Mic Bowman: its more than just the virtual world, right? [8:55] KyleG ReactionGrid: weare almost 80 sims on the core grid [8:55] KyleG ReactionGrid: but hundreds through our own clients HG [8:55] Mic Bowman: i definitely have to spend some time there this weekend [8:55] Mic Bowman: :-) [8:55] KyleG ReactionGrid: how so Mic? You mean our teammates are around the real world? [8:55] KyleG ReactionGrid: haha great its a fun grid we have a tomato event tomorrow youll like [8:56] KyleG ReactionGrid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30456505@N06/sets/72157611160421375/ [8:56] Charlie Peck: Johan, could we try porting your voice module to this grid? [8:56] Johan Berntsson: that's the plan [8:56] KyleG ReactionGrid: very cool! [8:56] Johan Berntsson: we just have to get an agreement between 3Di and Intel first [8:56] KyleG ReactionGrid: were working on light skype/im/groups mashup that will work in the media browser/Firefox [8:56] Charlie Peck: great, I think that would help level the field in terms of participation [8:57] Mic Bowman: hey everybody [8:57] Charlie Peck: thanks a bunch everyone [8:57] Mic Bowman: thanks very much for participating [8:57] KyleG ReactionGrid: but something inworld would be amazing [8:57] Paul Steinberg: bye all [8:57] Andrew FitzGibbon: Thanks. [8:57] Charlie Peck: bye [8:57] Johan Berntsson: bye [8:57] Mic Bowman: i need to head off to another meeting [8:57] KyleG ReactionGrid: ok great meeting you all! [8:57] Mic Bowman: kyle/robin.... feel free to join us in the future [8:57] Johan Berntsson: see you next week [8:57] Mic Bowman: your insights are very valuable [8:57] KyleG ReactionGrid: talk soon , oh well be back! [8:57] Mic Bowman: bye for now [8:57] KyleG ReactionGrid: thanks were all learning its groundfloor time for all [8:57] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: it sure will - I got a Asterisk server running on a Vista machine but we have had some challenge in adding the module to Hippo. but are still working on it... [8:58] KyleG ReactionGrid: cya all [8:58] Tom Murphy: Thanks all, this will work better when we have voice inworld [8:58] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: bye all [8:58] Mic Bowman is Offline [8:59] Tom Murphy: Robin, I coul only focus on the voice [8:59] Tom Murphy: I missed your thoughts on mixing ages [8:59] Tom Murphy: I nedc to read through the log [9:01] Andrew FitzGibbon is Offline [9:03] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we love that mixing ages is actually suceeding on our grid. everyone helps everyone. we have very active caring Gridizens [9:04] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: but as said before - we do police the grid all the time - especially since we have a mix of ages [9:04] Tom Murphy: I want to see as little structure as needed, I don't want to over constrain, but also want kids protected [9:04] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: exactly [9:05] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we feel that sharing knowledge between age groups and generations is the way to learn. and never want to restict just because you are 18 or 50 - we even have a few 3 and 4 year olds that come in with their parents to build and learn [9:05] Tom Murphy: My cut is that we are an over 18 group, but are open to under 18 participants, as long as they behave accordingly and have permissio of their parents [9:06] Tom Murphy: I agree with you in terms on being age-blind [9:06] Tom Murphy: We just have to do due dillence to protect against predators [9:06] Paul Steinberg: tom are you joining next meeting? [9:06] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes - we believe that if supervised any age can participate on RG but the enforcement of parental guidance is required [9:07] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: or teacher guidance [9:07] Tom Murphy: Paul - what next meeting? [9:08] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: we have sevral schools who have their own grids which are being hypergridded to us next week - we host their servers already - so they have ben vetted [9:08] Paul Steinberg: Super computing psaralleism [9:08] Paul Steinberg: you are chairing [9:08] Tom Murphy: when is it? i took it off my radar [9:08] Paul Steinberg: now [9:08] Paul Steinberg: 916 356 2663 [9:08] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: and then we also have schools that have sims directly on RG - bye guys I am sure I will see you again [9:08] Paul Steinberg: 2 [9:09] Paul Steinberg: 8110559 [9:09] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: I see you have another meeting to get to so I wont hold you up [9:09] Tom Murphy: Take care Robin - much more to chat about [9:09] RobinG2 ReactionGrid: yes we will bye [9:09] RobinG2 ReactionGrid is Offline [9:10] Tom Murphy: I am on now paul